Debrecen Messages #5 – Christ Before Creation: The Reality Behind All Things

Now, I’m coming to the end of those things that we know about Christ before creation. And when we looked at the Lord Jesus’ relationship to the Father before creation, I think we saw some of the most important things we will ever see as long as we live.

Now…in this talk, in this time together, and the next one, here’s what I want you to do. I want you to think of this being just the instant before creation. Just the instant before “Let.” “Let.” What’s “Let,” Kalia? Let there be light. In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth, and he said, “Let there be.” Now, this is right before that. Now, this is very important that you understand. This will only take a moment to explain, but I hope to goodness you get it. It’s not easy to comprehend. Brother Jonathan, if you can lay hold of this, it will change the way you present Christ to others forever. I’m going to start with an illustration. I’ve used it before. It’s the best illustration I have.

Back in about… Whoa. I was 25 years old. I had just left being a pastor. And I moved to a town called Houston, Texas. And I was becoming an evangelist. Nobody had ever heard of me. I was only 25 years old. But then nobody’s ever heard of me, and now I’m 61 years old. I’m not making much progress. So, there was a little folder I wanted to make, so I went to a young boy and…He charged me only a few dollars, I think around $35, and that was wonderful because I didn’t even have $35. And I showed him what I wanted him to do, some little art sketches for me with some people in it. And interestingly enough, I noticed that this young man, who is an artist, had very short arms, unusually short arms for his body. And it was just something I noticed. I came back a week later. He had done the artwork. And all the little figures of people he had made, their arms were shorter than normal. Like his. Now, I want you to stop a minute. I don’t know. Has anyone in this room ever done oil paintings? Have you ever done oil work at all? Any artists here among us? Okay, we’ve got one here nodding yes. Have any of you ever done any artwork of any kind? Pencil, acrylic? It doesn’t matter what it is. You have? Is there any way in this world you could do that without putting a little bit of your personality into it? It’s not possible. That’s why people love art. They put a little of themselves into it. Which means Picasso was a very troubled man.

Well, we’re made in the image of God. And if we do that, or if we do a painting, a little of ourselves are there. If you read a book by Gene Edwards, it is a little of Gene Edwards’ nature in that. I’m going to tell you something that I don’t believe.

A few days ago, I talked to someone who knew me when I was 12 years old and had not seen me in 50 years. Yeah, 49 years. This happened to me just a few days ago. And this person had just read a book I had written. And this person said to me, I read it. It sounded just like you. That’s weird. I almost fell off my chair. Twelve years old? And it sounds like me? That’s just not possible. And later while we were talking, we were talking on the phone, I said, oh my gosh. And this person said again, that’s just exactly like you. I had no idea. Now, it is impossible for God to create without something of himself being left there. Are you following me? Now, then, we have to remember something else. Who does the Father love? Loves his son. And who does the Son love? He loves His Father. And who does the Son wish to glorify? The Father. And who does the Father wish to glorify? The Son. Can the Father or the Son create without putting a message there?

God created things, the Father created all things, but He created them through his Son. Isn’t that wonderful how closely tied together they are? And then Colossians turns around and says, the Son did the creating. Whereas Hebrews says, the Father did the creating through the Son. Well, of course. If I do something through someone else, they do it. I don’t understand that.

Now, here’s what I want to tell you.I want you to listen to this really, really, really, really careful. Jonathan, you’ve got to get this. The things in creation are not real. They are a picture of reality. Oh, well, I’m going to quote from the Bible here. Oh, my. Take that child out of this room. It’s okay. It might happen. It was spontaneous. It’s all right. I don’t mind. I don’t care. What is reality?

God is reality. And one day we will go back into him because we will truly be in reality. He created shadows. They have mass and dimension, and yet to him they are shadows. And does a shadow have mass? No. Does it have reality? And I asked that question one time and a scientist said to me, Gene, we have been able to actually measure shadows. And they have almost, they have depth and breadth measurable, but it is so, so infinitesimal that it is almost impossible to believe, but it can be done. And I said, wonderful. That’s just how real creation is. It’s just barely there. It just barely shows up on the scale of God. It is a shadow.

When I first came to Europe when I was 19, things were very terrible over here. And I was amazed at how thin meat could be cut. Thinner than I’ve ever seen it since then. And you could see through it. Put your hand on one side of it. It was so thin. Well, that’s kind of what creation is. You can almost see through it. It’s a shadow. But now listen. Let me just take a minute with you and let you try to understand something. Do you realize if that’s true, you have never had a drink of water? Do you realize that means you have never had a bite of food? If these things are shadows and pictures and types, and they are not real, but the reality is Christ. By the way, that’s Colossians 2.16. If some of you folks don’t believe all this, then you can look in the first few verses of Hebrews 8 and find out that I’m on good solid ground here. Then all you have to do is listen to all the words of Jesus Christ about these matters, and you’ll find it’s true. You’ve never had a drink of water. You’ve never had a bite of food. If we drink, maybe we never have to eat. Yes, now see, Jonathan’s ahead of me now. He’s saying, yes, I have had a drink and I have had food because I have tasted Christ. But I want you to just leave that out for a moment. I want this to sink in.

When you pick up a glass and swallow what’s in it, you have shadowed. That’s not good English, but I’ll use it anyway. I’ll turn it into a verb. You have shadowed. You have actually only done a shadow. Now then, and on the seventh day, God rested. And so was born the Sabbath? Now, here’s the hardest thing for us to understand. That is, the Sabbath existed before creation. And that the Sabbath in creation is a picture. I’ll tell you something else you will never understand and neither will I. And that is the Sabbath has already been crucified. And in fact, it was crucified before it began. The Sabbath was crucified on the cross of Jesus Christ. If you don’t believe that, read Galatians.

Now, here is the most amazing thing. The Sabbath existed before creation and what we know of the Sabbath is a…the Sabbath existed before creation. Therefore, the Sabbath we know is a picture. That’s good enough. It’s a shadow. It’s a picture. It’s a type.

Now, I had a, I had a, my wife and I have a Seventh-day Adventist young lady, very dear girl, from Bulgaria, who lived with us for about five, six months. And she was a Seventh-day Adventist, and I want you to know, on Friday evening, usually around six o’clock, she disappeared. We did not see her again. And boy, you could just about time it. About 6 p.m. Saturday night, she came bounding down those stairs like someone who had been set free from the law. And she was very happy and alive while she had been resting for 24 hours. And, of course, one day, as Seventh-day Adventists are so good at this, she started trying to convert me to, you know, obeying the Sabbath. And I asked her a question, and that question was, will there be a Sabbath observance in the new creation?